Season 2026 -- Episode 1. Karen Salmansohn wants us to face our death and learn to live more fully

What an uplifting conversation with Karen Salmansohn! Her unique perspective on death and how facing it can motivate us to truly live is refreshing and much needed!

KAREN SALMANSOHN, bestselling author and behavioral change expert, whose books and courses have sold more than 2 million copies worldwide. With 1.5 million social media followers, Karen has built a dedicated following by blending humor, research-backed insights, and practical strategies for creating a more meaningful life. In her upcoming book, YOUR TO-DIE-FOR LIFE: How to Maximize Joy and Minimize Regret . . . Before Your Time Runs Out [BenBella Books | July 22, 2025], she challenges readers to rethink their relationship with mortality—not as something to fear, but as the ultimate motivator for living boldly and authentically.

Her book is available on Amazon.

You can reach Karen at:

NotSalmon.com

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Original music "Saturday Sway" by Brendan Talian (for all interviews before 2025)

Transcript

Speaker 2  0:00  
Karen, hello and welcome to the Storied Human. My guest today is Karen salmanson. She's a best selling author and leading behavioral change expert, celebrated for blending research based psychological strategies with bold humor with over 2 million books and courses sold. She's helped countless individuals shake off autopilot and start living with intention. She's the founder of the personal development site, not salmon.com home to 1.5 million loyal followers, and has appeared on Oprah and in Psychology Today, too many people assume they'll have some day to take risks, pursue passions or deepen relationships, only to wake up years later full of regret in a time of rising anxiety, chronic distraction and widespread burnout, avoiding conversations about mortality keeps people from making the changes they deeply crave. Research shows that thinking about death can actually boost happiness, increase motivation and help people make more meaningful choices, but most avoid this. Karen's personal story of losing her father and how it transformed her approach to life makes her a powerful advocate for this shift in perspective. I cannot wait to dig into this subject. It's pretty much close to my heart, and I love the work that you've done so far, and I'd love to talk about your new book. Welcome, Karen.

Unknown Speaker  1:34  
Oh, it's great to be here.

Speaker 1  1:38  
So you're, you're already, I mean, this is not new writing a book, right? You've got a following, you've got other books, but tell me about what led to the writing of this book. Was it losing your dad? Or were you building up to this?

Speaker 2  1:52  
Yeah, well, I I say I have two different ways to answer. I have one, which is the funny, quirky way, and then I have the poignant, heartfelt way, but I'll start with the funny, quirky way, which is I say that I did not write this book because I had a near death experience. I wrote it because I had a near life experience. And if you don't know what near life is, that's okay. I made I made up the term near life experience, and but a lot of people will relate to it. When I describe what it is, it's when is, it's when you're on your phone, so much scrolling that you're not like in your life, if you're near your life, or you're obsessing about something in the future or regretting something in the past. So again, you're not fully in your life. You're kind of life adjacent. And another way to describe it is that you're an autopilot, and a lot of people feel that way these days. I mean, there's a lot of that going around. And it also might even mean like near life even has another meeting, which is the someday thing. Like you keep putting things off till someday, so you're not fully again in your life. You're just kind of near it. Now, when my dad died, this is the part that's the other reason that I wrote that, which is the poignant, heartfelt one. When my dad died, it woke me up to realizing that I was spending far too much time in near life experiences, and that I you know that this thing called death exists. I, we, we know it. It's in the back of our mind, but we're built to be in denial of death. There's a whole area of psychology called Terror management, which is all about our attempts to deny the reality of the fact that we are mortal, that we're going to die. And when my dad passed away, it definitely woke me up, like this death thing is a thing, you know, it was very, I was very, like, kind of slapped awake to the idea that we are mortal and that I didn't want to waste my time anymore, that I felt like at during that time I was I was doing very well in my career, but I was in what I call beast mode. I was so much about work, which was fulfilling to me, but I wanted more balance in my life, and it woke me up to realizing that I wanted a family. I wanted kids. You know, I've been putting that off. So I have my dad's death to thank for the birth of my son and and actually, he was born on August 27 four years after my dad passed away on August 27 so my dad's death day is my son's birthday, which I find kind of poignant and sweet,

Speaker 1  4:48  
yeah, and you didn't plan it, obviously. But isn't that funny how things like that work out? Yeah, I'm so impressed that you took that event, which I know is, you know, having lost both my parents, my my. Dad, most recently, but my mom way too soon, like 20 something years ago. You know, you get numb. It's like, shocking. It's like, I'm really impressed that you were able to think your way out of it, like that. You were able to come to a place where you were like, what does this mean for me? Like, what can I get out of this? Like, I've lost this person. It's real now, right? It's so true, like we pretend like they're not going to die, which is so crazy, right? I've lost this person, and you process that, and you thought through that, and not only that, you shared it with the rest of us. So that's pretty impressive. Where does that come from? That ability to work it through and to and then to want to share it. I'm always so impressed with people that do that.

Speaker 2  5:47  
Well, I've always wanted to write well, I used to be in advertising, and I quit my job in advertising because I wanted to write books that made people think in new ways, not write ads that make people buy toothpaste. You know, I I wanted to do something with my creativity, and I was always a writer, like when I was a kid, I'd be up in my room writing in journals while a lot of the rest of my family were downstairs watching I dream a genie or whatever on TV. So I've always been a creative person, and journaling and writing has been a real rewarding outlet for me, so it made sense for me to want to turn it into art and and I do a lot of that with a lot of my books are about turning pain into purpose. You know, this book in particular is what I call a Legacy Project, which is where I really feel like as you get older, you become more aware. And I write about this in my book of what you want your life to stand for, the message that you want your life your was here, you know, flag on this planet, you know. And I really believe in the ideas in this book so much. I really want to get it out there and share

Speaker 1  7:03  
it with people. I think we really need it. I think we need a wake up call. And you seem to have put together the perfect one, because we are, we're just like, I don't know, counting time, thinking we have forever. A lot of us are doing that. And it's, it's easy to do that. You know, nobody's really watching you, saying, hey, get going. You just sort of, as long as you're, you know, paying the rent and moving along, right, and going to your work, yeah.

Speaker 2  7:28  
Well, a lot of us, it's not just about denial of of death. A lot of us need a deadline to get something done. We will procrastinate forever until the deadline appears. And death is like the ultimate deadline, and it's one you can't kind of talk your way out of. It's coming no matter what you know. And I mean, I think in some ways, death is kind of the universe's sassy way of getting us, motivating us to get things done. Because if we live forever, we'd be like, Oh, I'll tell him, I love him in a millennium, or, uh, I'll write my novel. And you know, couple 1000 years from now, you know, you can put things off. So this here to remind us to stop dragging our feet. And for that reason, I think of mortality awareness not as morbid, but as motivating, because mortality awareness creates urgency, and urgency creates action when you know, and also it changes what your fears are. Like you might be, oh, I'm afraid to whatever it is that you want to do, to do stand up Mic Night at the Comedy Club. But are you more afraid of not doing it before you you pass on, you know. So it kind of puts everything into perspective. Your fear of taking chances is over overcome by your fear of having regrets on your on your and not to be morbid, but here I go. I'm going to say it on your deathbed, you know. And so in my book, I help people to really think in a safe way, in a way that doesn't have terror management attached to it, about what you're going to want to feel like when you're on your deathbed. And I kind of get people motivated to think about it by helping them to write their eulogy. Now a lot of people are gonna be like, I don't want to write my eulogy. I don't blame them. So I've kind of taken the creepy crawlies out of it, and in my book, I have a fill in the blank template with, you know, Mad Libs. It's little like Mad Libs, where you fill in the blanks, and it helps you to write your eulogy without all the creepy crawlies of it, and really, and and a lot of what the blanks are, and I'll share this with you and your audience, are a lot of the blanks have to do with core values about living a life that you're proud of because you're embracing strong core values. Wow.

Speaker 1  10:00  
That is so cool. I think more of us need to do that for sure. And I have, like, ventured into this area when, when someone dies too soon, like somebody we know, and they died really young. It does. It hits you really hard, but then what I usually get out of it is, well, I better get off my butt, because this could happen anytime. But I love how you took it farther, and you encourage people to really think about sort of goals you have right before, before it's too late. You have to have you have to remember you're not here endlessly. I think we all act like we are here endlessly. If we're not, we have to become more conscious, is what I'm getting from you.

Speaker 2  10:38  
Yes, and so that's why I want people to really and what when you write your eulogy, it becomes more real to you. And also, I mean, we write, like, a five year business plan, you know, we think about other things like that, you know, we even think about, like, for New Year's, what's your goal for the year? So why not really think about what's your goal for life? And a lot of what I write about in in my book, is influenced by the philosopher Aristotle, but I don't write it in like a like a dry, you know, way I write it with humor and Aristotle, he said a lot of things that really resonate with me. He said that we should begin all projects with the ends in mind, everything from something small, like a bake sale, like what's your ends in mind for that to the gigantic project called your life. What is your goal for your life? Most people don't sit around thinking, what is my goal for life, you know, but Aristotle did the thinking for you, and I kind of repeat what he said in a funny way, so it's easy to understand. And Aristotle said that everybody on this planet has the same end goal for their life. No matter where you're from, if you're from Timbuktu, Toledo, Toronto, we all have the same end goal, and that is to learn lessons that help us to grow into our best possible selves. That that's the end goal for your life. And he says that a lot of people that are unhappy, they're unhappy because they're aimed at the wrong end goal for their life. They think the end goal for life is become the wealthiest person on the planet, or become the sexiest woman on the planet, or have the most Instagram followers or YouTube? No, those are superficial goals. And if those are your goals for the your life, then when you get to the end of your life, you're going to realize you chased the wrong rabbits, and you're going to really regret. That's where you get the regrets, what you spent your time and energy and focus on and that you should be focusing on, doing everything you can to grow into your best possible self, and that includes enjoying meaningful relationships, having meaningful experiences, being of service, all of those things. And a lot of us kind of we get if we're caught up in our work, even if it's fulfilling, it it can maybe block you from enjoying like the tough Regrets of the Dying are. I wish I didn't work too hard, so hard and so many of us worship at the altar of productivity and and I feel like we have to have more balance and more time for loving relationships and all of that, and a lot of us are out of balance with that.

Speaker 1  13:31  
Yeah, there's so much more fulfillment when you when you do those other things, when you deepen and you learn and you become your best self. But we don't focus on that. So I love that you're reminding us, you know, because we don't, we just, we get all caught up in our daily lives, and I think we just respond to, you know, the next thing, whatever someone needs from us, or whatever work needs from us. And you mentioned deadlines, and I'm a writer, and like, that's the only reason I get things done. So it makes a lot of sense that I should have, you know, a life deadline, and start thinking about what that means. You're also reminding me of I talked to a life and career coach, and she talked about having long term goal and then having short term goals and making sure that you're checking in with yourself and saying, Does this match my long term goal? I got that in my book that's so good, because people don't think that way, and I think that's such a brilliant way to sort of bring yourself back to who you should be and where you're going. Oh, thank you.

Speaker 2  14:30  
In my book, I describe that. I see it as sort of having a bifocal lens, like you have to keep your eye on the term prize, but know what each daily steps are. But in my book, I talk about having a daily to die list, which is different than a to do list. Okay, so let me explain what this is, a to die a to do list, as we know, helps you to schedule your day. To die list helps you to design your whole life. That's the bifocal. Thing there. And to die list, you could accomplish everything on your to do list, and at the end of your life feel like you wasted it again. It has goes back to productivity and busyness and worshiping at the wrong altars of these things, you know. And a to die list, you put down things that are meaningful to you and they're associated with core values. So what I have people do is I have you look at your current life, and then your aspirational eulogy, you life, and you see where is the gap, and then your to die list. Are the tiny little bridge habits that you have to take each day to get you from current you to aspirational eulogy you and the to die list has to do with the core values that I mentioned before, where you write down things like I am loving and so I spend time with my loved ones in present conversation, like I put my phone away. So you write down core value related habits that you can do each day that would not necessarily be on a to do list, and you put those on your to die list, so you remind yourself of who you want to be in your life, so it matches with aspirational eulogy you.

Speaker 1  16:21  
I really like that. And I like that you're giving it the same do that those very serious busyness lists. Have you know, these things are really important, and you're, you're giving it that same attention. I really like that.

Unknown Speaker  16:36  
So what are, what are people like?

Unknown Speaker  16:40  
Have you gotten reactions and feedback? Do you have early readers? Right?

Speaker 2  16:45  
I've gotten a ton of amazing response from the book. I have a lot of I had Jenny Lawson, who I don't know if you know her. I absolutely love her, so that was like a dream come true. She wrote me back. I don't I didn't know her. I just sent it to her, and she wrote back saying, this was fascinating. And then she who knew trauma and death could be so inspirational. So she loved it so cool. AJ, Jacobs wrote back saying that it was not only the funniest book he ever read, but that he thought it was like an amazing guide for helping people to live, you know, I forgot what he wrote exactly, but it was really nice. Yeah, you're

Speaker 1  17:27  
hitting a chord. Yeah, I have this feeling that you're hitting a chord with people. And I think part of it is your humor. People can really take it, you know, they can. They can take it in because it's partly funny. You deliver. It helps people. It helps. It does. It does.

Unknown Speaker  17:46  
And talk around death,

Speaker 1  17:48  
yeah, we don't usually talk enough about death. I mean, we're all going to go through losing someone, and we're all going to eventually die ourselves, but we don't like to talk about it. It's kind of

Unknown Speaker  18:00  
crazy, kind of the last

Speaker 2  18:01  
taboo topic, we'll talk about pretty much everything these days, but you bring up death, people kind of shy, and I, I'm a pioneer in what I call the mortality awareness movement, and my goal is to make death more of an accessible conversation, because I do think that more people are aware that they're going to die, the more they're going to Live Bold, authentic lives. And what I did in in my book is I looked at the top Regrets of the Dying, and I I interviewed somebody who's a death doula, and we look, I looked at those things with them, and then one by one, each of those regrets, I reverse engineered them to figure out, what do you have to do now to avoid those Regrets of the Dying and again, the core values come in, because if you embrace certain core values, then you will be able to, it's like slathering yourself with regret resistance Healing. You'll be able to kind of keep regrets at bay. So if you know what those regrets are, and a lot of them have to be like, I wish I hadn't worked so hard. So I actually give people the value of fun. I think that is a core value. I think that's great, yes, talent in our life. And then think about what you could put on your to die list to make sure you have more fun in a day. You know, you vary them each day. Thanks. And also, I wish I had allowed myself to have more joy in my life, or I wish I had been closer with my friends, so to kind of prioritize these things and make sure that you're sprinkling these things into your day so you don't wind up on your deathbed and, you know, and wonder, like, where did all that time go? You take care of it now, and actually speaking of time. I also help people to figure out where their time leaks are and their happiness leaks are, because so many people say, Oh, I would do that. But you know. I'm so busier I didn't have time for that, which is sort of like the adult equivalent of saying, like the dog ate my homework. I didn't have time for that. But you do have time if you do what I call a life audit. And I help people to do that, I have prompts that help them look at their life and see where are you leaking time, where are you leaking happiness? And try to figure out how you can find the time and the energy and the attention to put it on the things that matter most. So I help people to figure that out.

Speaker 1  20:34  
Just think it's great. I think in general, you just help people become much more conscious of themselves and how they can best suit themselves and not be there at the other end regretting. I mean, I remember reading people regret what they didn't do so much more than what they did do, the missed opportunities and the and if you're not paying attention like you're I just love that you're calling our attention to the fact that we're not paying attention like we're living, maybe we're living, you know, from the outside, these lives that look great, we're following all the rules, we're doing all the things, but that's not good for us as as human beings, as our own selves, when and what? What I also love about this is, the more you become yourself, the more you give the world. And if you're sitting here with your gifts, and you're not becoming your best self, and you're kind of cheating the world. It's like, my feeling is like we're supposed to be our full selves, or why are we here?

Speaker 2  21:32  
In my book, I actually have this very bizarre story that I tell about exactly that. So it's interesting because you just got the book, and you haven't had a chance to read the whole thing yet, so you have no idea, but you just hit upon something that's absolutely in the book. It was about the day my dad passed away. My mom came into the hospital with she had found a letter that I had sent to my father that was still in his bedroom Bureau drawer from when I was in college. And he said, and what we didn't know it was the day my dad was going to pass. And she brought it into the hospital. She said, Look what I found in dad's Bureau drawer. I recognized what it was. And inside there were some pages from a book that I had been reading at college that I had loved so much that had ripped them out of the book, put it in the envelope, and mailed it to my dad. And I don't know what book it's from, but when I read it on that day, oh my God, it was amazing. It's about what you just said. And I read it at his eulogy, and I don't have the pages anymore, but I read it and I reread it. I read it so many times that I kind of know it a little bit by heart, and this is what it said. It's exactly what you just said right now. It said, everything you have not given is lost. And then it repeated it twice. Let me say that again. This is what somebody else wrote out my words, everything you have not given is lost. This is a potent wake up call. Every thought, every gift, every talent, every passion, every Thank you, every compliment, whatever went on to this is is lost unless you share it with others. But then the more you share with others, you give you put a ripple out into the world, and then they share it, and they share it. And this metaphor about it's like throwing a pebble into a pond, and the ripple keeps spreading out, and so whatever you give keeps living on in the next person, and then the person that they meet, and then person and they meet, and the person. And so this metaphor of a ripple is one that we should keep in mind, as we give of ourselves and our lives and our talents, that we are leaving ripples. And viewed this way, how big of a ripple Do you want to leave, like, how much of a ripple? And it's about not hoarding ourselves. It's about sharing ourselves with the world. Yeah, I thought that was so beautiful.

Speaker 1  24:04  
That's so beautiful, and that's right on. You have no idea who you affect, but you have no right to hoard your gifts. That's where I'm at, yeah, you have no right to hoard your gifts. I love that whole image of the ripple. It's kind of how I feel about this podcast, like you don't know who's listening. You don't know where it goes. And I love being the facilitator of getting your your message out there, because who knows who needs to hear it, you know?

Speaker 2  24:30  
And then you and somebody shares it with somebody, who then shares it with somebody. It's a

Speaker 1  24:34  
beautiful image. Yeah, I really like that. And I really feel that, yeah, that's so nice and beautiful that you I'm so touched that you tore the pages, that you're like, I've got to send this to dad, and you tear, you literally tear your book apart. Well, that's what kills you after someone passes to see what they saved. It's like, so beautiful and heart wrenching. Because maybe you even. Forgot, like, my mother had this thank you card from my friend, a really, really good friend, and she wrote the most beautiful thank you card. And I was just like, oh my gosh, my mom just felt this and loved this and tucked it away and never, ever gave it up. You know, all those years, like, probably at the time, 20 years. So it really tells you what's close to someone's heart and how much they treasure what you sent. Yeah, that's a great story. I'm going to hold that image in my mind for a long time. So is there anything we didn't cover? Because I feel like I'm kind of relaxed and,

Speaker 2  25:40  
Oh no, it's cool. Well, I mean, with that story, that's about what I think of those ripples as many legacies, but they're like sees too, like I do feel that we're here to put our was here mark on this planet, and we have to figure out what that is, what how you want it. Let your your life be a message to the world and to find the purpose of your life, is to find and do the purpose of your life and to make sure you're living authentically. Authentic is a very important core value that I think people should embrace if they want to live what I call a year to die for life. You know the name of the book, you know that where it's your life is literally to die for that you are happy with your life. When you wind up on your deathbed and you look back, you want to give your life a 10 star

Unknown Speaker  26:28  
Yelp review, you know, like, Okay, I did good.

Speaker 2  26:32  
And that's if you live authentically, and then the more ripples you leave. But people think like legacy has to be something grand. Legacy doesn't have to be grand. It's just about, you know, living a loving life, being kind, being attentive, being present, talking to people, sharing your gifts. However you can. You don't have to live some leave some grand like, you know, solving cancer legacy. You can just be a good person, and that's your legacy, and you can write that out. When you write your eulogy, you think about how you want people to remember you and the ripples that you want to leave. Leave behind.

Speaker 1  27:12  
That sounds like such a good thing to do. Just really focus on, what do I want to leave behind? And some of my favorite obituaries, not that I read a lot of them, but there's a local paper, and I sometimes know people, or I know the family. My favorite ones, I think, are the ones where they say, you know, she was people loved her lemon cupcakes, and she was a mother to everyone, and everyone knew her smile and like, to me, that's just as wonderful as somebody who built a library, or, you know, has a hospital wing named after them, because everyone felt her love. Those are she was this loving person. And so I just I hear what you're saying. That's so lovely. So tell us again the the full title of the book, if you don't mind,

Speaker 2  27:57  
sure it's called, you're to die for life, and then the subtitle is how to maximize joy and minimize regret before your time runs out and and it's a I have a website, your to die for life, com. And if you buy the book, you can either pre order it. I'm going to leave this up. The book goes live in July if you type in your invoice number, I have a free gift. If you come to your to die for life, com, you get a workshop that I created called it's never too late to rejigger your life, and you'll get

Unknown Speaker  28:35  
that for free. That's

Speaker 1  28:37  
fantastic. Is there any way, any other way you want to let people know they can contact you Sure?

Speaker 2  28:44  
Well, my name is Karen salmons, and everybody mangles it, and they're always going salmon sin. I'm always saying, Not salmon, not salmon. So my website, another website of mine, is not salmon. Com, that's where I have all my other books and and my Instagram is not salmon. Facebook is not salmon, and my sub stack is not salmon. So that's pretty much the way you

Speaker 1  29:07  
that's great. I mean, I always like to ask people say it out loud, because not everybody reads the show notes. I'm going to put all of this in the show notes. You know, they'll get all this information if they read the show notes. But sometimes people just hear it. So it's good, good to say it here. I can't thank you enough for coming on. You have such a great message, and I think it just will really help people. This book is going to help people.

Unknown Speaker  29:33  
Way to go.

Speaker 2  29:34  
Yeah, probably readers are thanking me, so I'm, I'm very excited to get the book out to more people and yeah,

Speaker 1  29:42  
you think you hit upon something and you and you articulated it well, and you presented it with humor. I can't wait to read it. I'm excited.

Unknown Speaker  29:51  
So thank you so much for inviting me on here.

Speaker 1  29:54  
Thank you so much for coming. It was just a pleasure.

Unknown Speaker  29:57  
Likewise, likewise, I.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai